Aaron
Hello, I'm Aaron Kyle and welcome to another episode of Build Hatch. In this week's episode of Build Hatch, I had a very empowering and sincere chat with the builder, who has an incredible and diverse story. This week's guest is Robbie Strattie from Stratti Building group. Robbie and I sat down in Sydney. And as you'll hear from our chat, Robbie story is one full of inspiration built from a young age which was impacted by a tragedy early on in his life. I say just about every week, we get to hear and discuss about things in our community that you wouldn't normally hear about. This week is no different. And Robbie and his team are leading the charge, building amazing projects around some of Sydney's best areas and sites. As I say, Robbie has a hell of a story, but from tragedy builds diversity, empowerment, and inspiration. And I have to tell you guys, it was very humbling to sit down and chat to Robbie about his long journey so far. Robbie has all those qualities that are just mentioned, and you have to check out this incredible African building project that Raleigh built to help honour his late father, which went on to win International Design Awards. It's nothing short of inspiration. Robbie has a fascinating story of finding his way around in life and growing up in the construction industry from an apprentice to a leading Sydney builder. So let's get into it. Robbie strategy from strategy building Welcome to build hat. Thanks for having me, mate. Looking forward to having a chat. That's okay. Now like all our guests on Build Hatch, we always like to start at the very beginning. So whereabouts Did you grow up?
Robbie
Yeah, mate. So I grew up out in southwest Sydney in a town called Campbelltown. I grew up. But one or two, the younger brother, young family. My parents were quite young when I was born, Dad was 18. Mom was 19. So really, really young. And grew up in a family business had grandfather had three businesses that he ran. So he had a excavation company that sort of specialised in sand, sand extraction. He had a earthmoving equipment manufacturing business. So they made rock saws and grinders and things like that for excavators. And then he had a sales side as well, where he sold excavators so sort of grew up in that setting and seen all the dynamics of a family business. My grandfather had four sons, they all worked in the business. And it was a bit of an interesting, interesting upbringing. That side.
Aaron
Yeah, I think also to my parents were quite young, too. Not that young, but still quite young. And I think having that young parents sort of you get to see them grow up and mature as adults as well. So I think that kind of rubs off on you. And that's in my experience anyway, from what
Robbie
I've seen, yeah, definitely made it. So it was always one of those things. I quite enjoyed it when I was younger, growing up, young parents are out doing things with us. And, you know, there's a lot I think it was quite a relatable relationship as we grew up, you know, you could have conversations, and it wasn't such a disconnect between where we were and where they were with things. So yeah, I really enjoyed having young parents was good upbringing. And then also, you know, obviously, the industries that my grandfather was in that my dad also worked in, we were as young kids, obviously, able to get out on site. It's really young kids out there with excavators and big toys for us to play with.
Aaron
It's good. So what were you like as a kid growing up?
Robbie
Yeah, it depends. He asked that, yeah, always been really ambitious. It's sort of in my nature, I've always sort of like to push the boundaries a little, if you will. Join, having a bit of fun with the boys and carried on how you're getting into sport and all sorts of things. through school, always really good at maths, I was sort of my strong, sweet, that just happened naturally. But I wasn't too interested in the other stuff I sort of always had in my head growing up in the industry that I would be in the industry. So yeah, just enjoyed having a good time.
Aaron
And sort of going throughout high school, did you aspire to go to university? Or did you know that you were going down that practical family? Sort of?
Robbie
Yeah, I actually, I always knew that I wanted to go down the side of getting into construction, I didn't quite know where in construction because I sort of my background growing up my family was in the earthmoving site. But I always knew that sort of always interested me interested that was interesting to me to do that. So I never was too interested in going to university, to the extent where when it came to sort of year 11 and 12, that was a prerequisite that my parents had that I had to do that. I think that came from that, you know, their upbringing as well. And with my dad, you know,
Aaron
they thrown into work, they probably did it the hard way. And so they naturally want their children to
Robbie
exactly easy, exactly, but sort of when it came time to you know, picking your subjects and those sorts of things. I wasn't overly fast in getting a UI to get into you because I knew that wasn't the route that I wanted to take. So I didn't bother with that. I didn't you know, the construction course would work did all those sorts of things that I really enjoyed doing. So
Aaron
I think that's really important to me. Do you speak to a lot of people who don't force to do to unit mathematics or physics?
Robbie
Yeah, I think I've always been quite passionate driven. So I'm not, I've sort of my friends that know me and my wife. So they'll know. And family, I'm sort of an all or nothing. When I go, if I'm going into it, and I commit that, I'm going to do it, I absolutely get it done and, and go all out in it. But if I'm not interested in it, if I don't have the passion to do it, I just don't feel motivated to do it. And I don't apply myself in that way. And it's just part of my sort of personality, I guess, in my DNA that I just need to have the passion behind doing it. So for me that passion wasn't there to go towards that side of the educational go to university. My passion was going out and actually working and doing the construction side. And don't get me wrong. I always continued in a high level of mathematics. I enjoyed that side of it as well sort of looked at that as problem solving. In a way that was sort of the way it worked in my mind that you had the practical foresight. Yeah. And that and you know, that same problem solving through maths apply to the construction side as well. You know, carpentry is obviously the most part mathematics. So, you know, there's a lot of that side that we've got to take into it.
Aaron
So finishing you 12, then, yeah, it's easy to do from there.
Robbie
So it's a bit of a long story, actually, it's,
Aaron
these are the stories we like to hear, because people Yeah, to hear these
Robbie
perfect. So finished year 12. I was still seven, eight when I finished you 12 Or turned 18 in January. So actually went overseas straight after I finished it and go to school. So I went over to my backgrounds, Norwegian, Italian, Irish, and my mom's whole side from Norway. My mom's phone, Norwegian. So actually went over to Norway for about six weeks when I finished high school straightaway. And then I came back in rewinding a little bit, when I was 14, my parents split up, and my dad and his partner, you know, over the years, they actually their passion was to build a orphanage in and a sort of community centre in East Africa. And so here it is what him and his partner at the time had put together NGO and nonprofit organisation and they had actually, when I graduated high school in year 12, they were actually over in Africa, starting to build, they'd started sort of the middle of the year when I was 12. So come February, early February, there's opportunity for me to go over there and spend some time with my dad and actually get involved with that project. So I think it may even have been the last last week. And in January of that year, I actually got on a plane and went over to Africa with my girlfriend at the time. And that was my first taste of actually doing carpentry work outside of school, you know, actually building something. And I was there with my old man from no January till early June. And that was awesome. That was sort of been the first time where I'd actually started doing carpentry work and actually constructing something, I think that is what ignited that passion inside of me to see that you know what we can build. It's not just a structure like this meaning behind it. And it is you can change someone's life. And even putting aside being in Africa building something here in Australia, you can build a home and it sets the tone for the family, you know, you create an environment and all throughout the home, there's opportunities where you can create different fields and different vibes where your whole, your whole mood can change just by walking into a room if it's constructed in a certain way. So
Aaron
and I think also, too, I mean that to add that meaningful element to it as well in terms of, we're not just changing a space to improve the look of the backyard or the landscape or, or get a better glimpse of the ocean, we're talking about touching families lives, giving them shelter and changing their whole
Robbie
life. Exactly. It's I think I had my first interaction with actually building a house or a home or a structure that was had meaning behind it was over there. And I guess that was sort of the extreme end of doing something where what you're doing has such a big impact, where you're quite literally changing a life completely from being in the dirt to being in a shelter where they have, you know, the food and water, everything that they need. So I did that with my old band for the sort of four and a half months. And that was a real life changing experience. And then actually came back home and worked in my uncle's business, and my grandfather's business for a little bit. And unfortunately, there was a bit of a tragedy over in Africa and my old man passed when he was over there. So yeah, and ended June. So four weeks after I'd left, there was an incident that had happened and my old man passed as a result of the incident. And then that sort of lit the fire for me as well that, you know, we had to make sure that there was the disk construction project that it started, it was half built, was completed because otherwise it was all for nothing sort of thing. It was the only one that was part of the organisation that was able to actually see that sort of a build out. So we banded together. Two of my uncles, one of which was a carpenter by trade and And then why doesn't Joel, who was also a carpenter and builder at the time, we all sort of got together and we actually all decided that we're going to go back and finish this build so that it wasn't for nothing. And we went back, September, I was remember, it was Father's Day in September, we got on the plane, and we actually went back to Africa, and we were there. So then right through to Christmas, to see how to build and that that period of being 18, you know, young man going through that experience, that was a lot of growing up that had to happen. That's a huge amount of grit. Yeah, a lot of growing up a lot of maturity that had to come out of that. And also, you know, it sort of, for me, it just cemented, so, so much inside of me, you know, the passion behind building spaces. It doesn't have to be a house, it can be something else that has that sort of an effect on somebody. But it really reinforced that that's where I wanted to go. So when at the beginning of that year, I knew I wanted to be in the industry didn't know what sector what part to what extent, by the end of the year, I knew exactly what I wanted to do. And that was built beautiful spaces that changed people's lives. What
Aaron
type of project was that over in Africa? Like, yeah, what sort of space was it?
Robbie
So a bit of context of what that what that project was, it was a huge property, it's a few acres that they had, and it was a facility that was set up to house women who were disadvantaged or abused, and for them to look after their own children, but not only after their own after orphans as well. So it sort of made them, you know, look at an environment where they could look after their own children, but then look after orphans. And it could house 50 people. So it was actually a 50 metre long building that you can see on my website, I've actually put the project up on my website. And there's a 50 metre long building that was all conventionally constructed our timber, it was designed actually won a World architecture award with its design, it had passive cooling. So
Aaron
there's an extreme climate of Aftering. So I mean, what's the summer like over there
Robbie
about 40 plus days, completely different heat, completely different heat, and you know, it's dry and all sorts, but then when it's raining, it's monsoonal. And you can, it's insane, the amount of rain can drop in an hour there. So there was a lot of sort of interesting things with the design, we had passive cooling with the the truss system that was used for the roof with our plywood panels that the hot air would heat up on the inside of the air pocket that we created, and then suck out through the top and bring the cool air in. So we had that housing part. And then we had a huge building that was about 30 metres squared 30 by 30. That was a community centre. So that was sort of there for learning for the children, for also community learning and all sorts of things like that had a big community kitchen. And then there was a medical centre as well. So sort of like setup was only small it was maybe, I think, off the top, my head, maybe eight by eight metres, sort of area set up where Dr. Carmen treat any of the children or anyone in the community. And so it was really a project that was not just for the people who were going to be living in it, but actually for the whole community. And not only after the project completed being for the community, but actually during the project. So we worked with the whole entire community. During the project, we employed all the locals to work with us. And that was a great experience, because I was learning but we were also teaching them how to do things and learning languages and all those sorts of things. What
Aaron
about materials like timber, like what sort of what sort of timber or materials
Robbie
made an interesting one, actually, we were using eucalypt as a cladding product out there. So somebody brought some eucalypt over there. Back when and yeah, we're using that, for cladding, we're using pine for our framing. So yeah, it was all.
Aaron
And so could you have access to those? Except for the YouTube, of course, but those raw products like the point Yeah,
Robbie
yeah, yeah, we had to, it's interesting, whenever you want to bought anything, you'd have to go out into town and actually load all the stock on in a factory with them. And you know, it was all big, big process to get get materials out to site and you had to use all terrain vehicles, because it was sort of out in the middle of nowhere we were going through. So really, really interesting process through that. And then that was that was the main area. And then it was actually a complete permaculture farm as well that they'd set up there. So it was a big project to get done. And we actually had with everything that happened with my dad that was actually that was in the news, and then the papers and things like that. And we had some chippies from Byron Bay builders in Byron Bay that actually reached out to us and came over and helped us as well. And they were incredible. So shout out to those guys. They were awesome. It wouldn't have been able to do it without them. And there's sort of lifelong friends we keep in contact. That was an incredible project. And that was something that was the complete extreme of, you know, the aesthetics of building something for somebody. But that sort of set the passion that I really wanted to get into the carpentry side of things and to build the end game was building for me to work towards that. So coming back from that, we completed the project as some few small minor things that the organisation took care of once we'd left and we completed that project and came back to Sydney and it was sort of a bit of a you know, for one it was a culture shock coming back After living there for nearly a year, and then the second one was sort of working out, well, where do we go from here? What's the next steps? You know, sort of having my mind where I want to work towards life's change now? Yeah, lives change. And, you know, what's the how are we going to do this? Now? What do we do? What are the next steps. So I had an opportunity to jump back in working with a company that specialises in civil works. So doing bridges and large civil projects, and that had really good money. And I grew up in the industry, and they knew that our family from growing up in the industry, so I was able to jump into that as a as a leading hand position. But that wasn't what I was passionate about, not what I wanted to do. But it was a good opportunity to earn some money, we're going to start so a fair you
Aaron
put your life on hold for a year. Yeah. So financially, your financials had been put on ice.
Robbie
Yeah. And it was sort of a, you know, just coming out of school, we, you know, you're starting myself. So I went down the route of actually working with them, and I enrolled into from the advice of my uncle rolled into night school to learn carpentry. So it was working big days, five, six days a week, and then two days, two nights a week, I'd be going to TAFE in militate in Liverpool, and doing that from sort of five o'clock to nine o'clock at night, and then go back, have a couple of hours sleep, go back to work and do that. And I did that, for a period, it was about a year and a half. And then the company I was working with actually started to move into resin a bit of residential work, they had quite a bit of money behind them with there had been quite successful with business. And so they started building their own houses, but then also building houses for a few clients that were you know, friends of theirs or friends of friends. But you know, quite a high end of the market that normally you would not be able to just walk in and start building in. And there was an opportunity to jump on to an incredible project as off form concrete house, four and a half million dollar build as a leading hand. So jump out of the civil and jump into that. And it was awesome. So I sort of almost felt like I'd manifested this thing that just come up was exactly where I wanted to go with that opportunity. And well,
Aaron
you know, you you were transferring the leadership qualities and the supervision skills over into that project. Yeah,
Robbie
exactly. And I got I got put into that project as a leading hand. So the the management structure on that job with the business that we're working with, where it was a project manager that was involved in sort of high level things and contract negotiation with subbies, and those sorts of things. And there was full time site manager, who was my uncle there. And then myself as the leading hand. So I was on the tools working with the guys but also quite involved in the city art and organisational sort of things. And there for about a year and the structure had, for the most part been built. And my uncle decided that he wanted to uproot from Sydney and actually move down to the south coast down towards Barry. And the company we're working for approached me and said, Hey, you reckon you can finish the build? And then young and naive and 21 sort of said, Yeah, I'll give it a go. Of course, they dropped was I've been here for the last year and nine months, whatever it is. So I'll do that. Not knowing what I didn't know, and not know what I was getting myself into, and sort of went on this crazy journey for the next 12 I think it's actually about 16 months of really fast paced learning. Yeah, I was an awesome architect that is thinking, yeah, exactly. It's awesome architects who we still work with today, David sold and design, really, really high spec high level of detail, you know, hundreds of drawings, finished details, and all of these things that thrown right into the deep end. And my approach has always been a really open one where, you know, bullshitting doesn't get you anywhere. So you know, communicating with the people around you're learning from them is very highly a high priority for me. And I put that down to my goals that I have now, you know, like, no questions, a stupid question. The one you don't ask is the stupid question. And I talk to the guys around you. If you're not sure, talk to the subbies what's the best way we should get do this, you know, with the plumber, and then you know that for the next time, you know what, there is a space. So I was fortunate that I had been trained that way. And so I had a really open mind. And I always had really good communication skills with the subbies that are on site, because I'd already worked with them for nine months as the lady handle on the job, that I was able to work with the subbies and get the help from the project manager and you know, see that project through to completion. Interestingly enough, come full circle nine and a half years later, I was actually at that same job a few months ago, because the owner wants us to build a pool cabana. And you know, remember the relationship that we had building it, and he wants us to do that out the back there. So, you know, it's just it's just funny how things come? Yeah, circle relationships. Yeah, exactly. And at the end of that job, I was 22. And we just wrapped it up a credible build. And it was approached by another high end builder in Sydney, who sort of come and had a look at what we've done on the project. And he pulled me aside and he said, Look, what would you think about Sabine to me to run my projects, it's just me at the moment. I'll only do a few projects at a time, but I think I've got the right project for you to come aboard and run for me. And again, being some One who likes to jump at an opportunity for something straightaway, registering business doing all those things and getting into it. And I actually registered as a company at that point instead of a sole trader, because I just had in my mind that this was a, this was a stepping stone, this was something that Yep, let's go do it. But instead of just being a sole trader, and then sort of getting in that comfortable position, I don't know, I just want to start off, let's start as a company, do this for a bit. And then let's see where that goes. And went out from 22 storey building as it is now that was registered, took me nine years ago now and went out subby to this gentleman for a year and a half. And he was an incredible project manager, he operated at such a high level with NGS and his background, was doing large scale projects, and then he'd sort of wound it back for himself. And it was just him then in the business. And at that point, it was me and him. And he just ran a few high end builds at a time high and ultra nerds, you know, those sorts of things. And I had the opportunity again, to just soak everything up from him like a sponge. So everything that we did, I was always asking the why, you know, how are we doing that? Why are we doing this? What are we doing here? And it, it taught me the project management skills that we now implement, and that I'm teaching why guys to implement within our business. And that was obviously that's
Aaron
a that's a key lesson there. Because I remember that feeling myself to when a senior manager or project manager or construction manager, and when you're a young guy, you seem to think that these guys know so, so much. And and they do, right. But the key ingredient of their success, and the reason they're in that position, is they have a willingness to direct or get information from the right resource. Yeah, definitely. And that's what makes them such a good project manager. Yeah,
Robbie
I think it's being having the ability to have an overview and understand what's going to work, how you're going to get things done. And working through that. And I, yeah, I was fortunate to learn a lot from this gentleman. And, and that really, sort of got to a position after a year and a half, where I felt that I had the tools to go and have a take on my own now. And to to go out and try myself. I had the conversation with him. And he actually sort of said, well, hang on, let's, let's have another conversation, why don't we do something together, and I can bank roll and you know, we can go and do this. And we started planning, we started looking at business names. And you know, that sort of process, we're talking about everything and went on for about two months. And then unfortunately, he was actually diagnosed with a sickness where he wasn't able to work anymore. So sat down, and he sort of said to me, Look, Robbie, I'm really sorry, I can't go through that I'm actually going to have to stop working indefinitely. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and just hit overtook his whole body, he couldn't get out of bed just happened really quickly. And he still suffers with it today, I still talk to him regularly. And he's a bit of a mentor. And unfortunately, he's still suffering, but he hasn't gone back to work yet seven years ago. Now. It's tough. And you know, it was it was tricky. It was really, really bad timing with myself with where I was just sort of everything sort of drops. But again, I sort of look at those things as there's always a door that opens as we're talking about before, you know, there's things come up and they rear their heads. I like to look at the those adversities as sort of opportunities for growth. And interestingly enough, we've got talking to a few people. And there's another high end builder in Sydney who was looking for someone that sort of, I fit the ticket for and started talking with him and he sort of was aware of the project I've done in the past the the concrete home and he actually had been out there I didn't realise that But he'd been out there at a time when I wasn't on site and had a look through it himself as well. Yeah. And he engaged me as a savvy to project managing site manage a really large project in the lower north shore of Sydney McMahons point where we had an old warehouse that we basically old asbestos warehouse, propped up the entire building and excavated 800 sheets of cube of sandstone out from the underside of the building. And that was pretty hairy with everything that we're doing. So it was a
Aaron
plus a pretty busy area of Sydney's Yeah, it was
Robbie
busy, but fortunately, this was sort of on a back street around the side. So it wasn't too busy in that sense. But it was more that the structure itself needed to be supported from not just the perimeter, but had intermediate support through the centre. You know, it's a really dicey type of excavation if it was done wrong. So luckily, my background actually played in a lot with that, because we were able to use techniques that I'd learned growing up with rockets. That heavy industry Exactly. You know, we've been I've been on excavators with rock swords from 12 years old. So I sort of had a good understanding of what we're able to do and what we'll be able to work with and vibration monitors and all those sorts of things. And that was a fantastic project that was it was an old warehouse converting to to luxury home. So we had two separate clients that were cousins but two separate clients. One of the top architects is Sydney and also one of the top interior designers in Sydney that were on that project. And then about a third of the way through the job, the inlaws of one of the owners for the warehouse, bought the house behind. And we started doing that as well. So I had three separate jobs, I was managing three separate clients, three separate designs, three separate finishes, schedules, everything, they will just next to each other. But, you know, that was still young man figuring it out, well, in over my head, the reality is at that point and in learning successful projects, and everyone was wrapped with the end result. But there was a lot of learnings that went along that and the builder that I was working for, he sort of left me at an arm's length, he came there once every three to four weeks, had a couple of hours with a coffee and a bit of a chat and then went,
Aaron
Yeah, that's a good thing. That's a good sign. It means he was comfortable. Yeah,
Robbie
it was. Exactly It was it was comfortable. And it also it also meant that it provided that environment for growth, like you know, I it was on your shoulders and you had to you had to perform with it, everything came down to you didn't really have that much of a buffer behind you. So it really it did a lot of things. I learned a lot on that job. It instilled a lot of confidence in decision making, because the decisions were yours to make at the end of it. There wasn't a project manager that was there to work with it was it was me. And it also left the it actually left a mark on the architects and designers because two months before completion, they actually pulled me a set aside and said Robbie, you got to go out on your own. Do your own building work, we'll feed you some work, but you know, you've been the guy we've been dealing with, you've built all of this time. Yeah, don't don't do it. And to me, that was that was a massive, you know, confidence booster, because they were very prominent architects and designers, and they were basically saying, well back you going out. They said to me, whatever references anything, you need to get your licence sorted. I was licenced carpet at the time wasn't a licenced builder. And they said, you know, whatever you need to get sorted. Back you on it. And I think it was within a couple of weeks, went out, got everything sorted the paperwork, got our licence lodged. And three months later, we started our first project. First project for ourselves, that was sort of that pivotal point where I went right not going to do any more contracting work to other builders, now is the time for us to go out. So I was just sort of mid 25. At that point.
Aaron
You've had such a full life by then yeah, I
Robbie
had a chat with a few other boys. They're the older boys in the industry and sort of telling them a bit of the story. And they're like, mate, it's got about 20 years going on,
Aaron
by the way listeners, Robbie's not 60 You know,
Robbie
31. So, yeah, we went out there near 25 to just do our own work and, and first job sister and brother in law's house, it's sort of that was part of that, you know, they told him, I'll go get my licence to my own work. And they were talking to a bureau at that time, and they sort of said, Hang on, you want to price this up for us. And we'll do that. And that was a great opportunity to get started, little four months sort of extension Reno project at their place. And then our second project after that's our first sort of externally sourced project was actually directly from the designers that had influenced me to go out and get my own licence sorted. And made, we just sort of went from there, it just, we sort of had injected ourselves into that high end market at that point, because I'd taken the relationships that were already there from the high end building that I was doing, and they were the ones that started feeding us work. And so now there's this industry is a little niche of high end that people, you know, battle to get into. And we were fortunate enough through that, you know, that proven experience that they'd had with myself and dealing directly with myself all the time, that they had the confidence within my ability that we could go out and actually start doing that kind of work. And by the end of our first year ago, he had six guys on and will running two projects at once at all times. And you know, it's just snowballed from there. It's just started. It's building relationships. It's all been word of mouth. Up until recently, we started doing some marketing work, but yeah, up until Christmas last year, everything's been word of mouth. Yeah, all been organic. And that's been fantastic. It's sort of as I mentioned earlier to before this, it's gotten to that point where it starts to plateau a little because it was just coming in as it as it did at a steady pace. I think everything happening last year was actually whilst it was such a negative thing for a lot of people it was a really positive thing for me with COVID where it sort of forced me to have a look at well hang on, where are we getting our work at the moment and are we is a area here that we're leaving ourselves open to having our source of work cut off if that designer or that architects stops getting their feeds coming through to them their leads are stopping that's going to stop our leads. So what are we doing here and that really started to to make me look at the BD site a lot More start getting into reaching out and contacting architects and going having a sit down with them and having a conversation and, you know, really presenting what we do to them and and then that started making me look at our internal documentation, you know, like, how can we dress this up to be able to present it and to educate the clients and even, you know, to look at with the architects, you know, to, to have the discussion around them of, you know, how we can work with each other, we're really collaborative approach that we have with everybody, it's not a US versus you versus them sort of thing. It's a, we're here to work with the clients and work with the architects and work with the designers to get the best end outcome to create that space where it does, you know, changing mood and change. So are you
Aaron
getting in early, you know, that that key talking to the architect and designers very early on in the piece?
Robbie
Yeah, so we actually have a project that we just completed at the end of end of last year. And we're just actually entered it into the industry awards. And we call that project that our edge project. And with that one, we actually were involved in our work where we did that work in 2020. And I was involved in that job in 2018. So that was the first time the clients had reached out, it was actually through the designer that we do a lot of work with. And, you know, they had sort of had some internal remodelling that they wanted to have a look at doing. And then as the conversations grew, got bigger and bigger and bigger, as they always do. And then we got down the road where we needed to do a DA, and through this process, we were constantly working with the clients and the designers and doing sort of high level costings, you know, so it's not not going to be something you'd sign a contract to. But it's something that gives the clients a bit of an indication as to where we're heading. And it's not, we don't we don't work with square metre rates with things it's not, you know, we look at it, this many square metres at this rate, you're probably looking at this amount, we actually still broke it all down to, you know, break work. And that gave the client some information. So we had real real data that we could then go if we want to make a cost saving, what are the big chunks of cost in this project that we're projecting that we're going to be how
Aaron
you had invested that time upfront, doing definitely luminary estimates? Yeah, definitely.
Robbie
And I feel it's a really important process in the, in the project, but also in the sales, because it's providing the opportunity for the client to get a feel for yourself and your team and how you operate with things. And, and also provides an opportunity for the client to see the value add, you know, what you're bringing to the project. And there's been countless times where, you know, we can't be in and we're quite often looking at, it may not even be changing the design, but changing the construction methodology that's proposed. So working with the engineer and say, hey, what if we do this instead? Is this an option? Is this going to be up to standards as far as the structural integrity if we do it this way, or might be material selection, so it we're still building the same thing? It's just a different type of veneer that we're using to bring it into budget, you know, all those sorts of options that we work with? I don't, I don't like to take an approach where it's cut and dry, we get a plan set of plans. And that's it. That's what we're building and, and that's the quote, and we're not interested in any conversations. If you want to change something, get designer change it, and then we'll recoat it feel like that's a bit of an old way of doing things. And I feel like the way that the industry is moving at the moment is that you need to be involved early stages.
Aaron
I talk about this all the time, and with clients and new builders and any builders I meet, basically, but you know, I guess the key question builders and people ask, Well, what happens if I don't get this job? And well, what happens if you do get this job? You know, there's the if you flip the coin, and you look at it that way, and then even if you miss out on the job, right? So, Dale Cheeseman, the Melbourne builder, and Melbourne has been on the show before, we talked about that a long time ago. And that was, it's almost healthy to have a competitor tendering on the job put in that work yourself so that you know the ins and outs of that job not to look at it from a return on investment perspective, but to de risk the project. Yeah, de risk it. Does it fit my business model? Does it fit my clientele? Does it fit my, my team where I can build it logistically? My time like? So if you look at it like that? And then even if you do miss out on the job, right? Well, it's marketing, it's okay. At the end of the day, it's marketing, you've probably you've met, probably, I can think of five or six relationships that you've probably met spoken to. Even if you miss out on a job, you've represented yourself and your company along the way. Exactly. So it's, it's a, write it off as a marketing exercise.
Robbie
Actually, look, I've got a few things that are great examples of that. So we had one just recently that we actually weren't awarded the project. We did lose the project. But the whole process was still a rewarding process. And I'll get into a bit of sort of why that was a rewarding process for us. So firstly, with our preliminary work that we do, so we we actually enter into preliminary agreements with our clients. And we do charge a small fee for that. And we it's a different agreement for each client. Because there's a different requirement that each client has for us, some clients want us to be really involved. And, you know, provide a lot of information, a lot of options for cost saving, and value engineering the project, some clients just want a detailed bill of quantities that they can work to have a look at to get an understanding of where the costs are in the jobs. And then other clients that we have, we can involve pre any drawings, we've got one at the moment, we're looking at this new building Deewar. And, you know, the architects have taken a fantastic approach to it, they contacted us and they said, look, we've got a client, you it's a block, it's gonna be a knockdown rebuild, we want to approach this in a way where we come with a builder, we meet with the clients, we have a look at the site, and you know, we get the budget from the client, and we'd like to give you have you have some involvement on what parameters that will give us to design within. And that was a really collaborative approach. And I really enjoyed doing approach. Yeah, and we've just started that, you know, with them. And we've gone to the site, we've had a look, we've sort of worked out together where the best spot for the garage will be how much excavation, what sort of things we can do to minimise the costs, we put in a garage underground, you know, leaving the sandstone walls exposed and building on top of it. So we don't have all the walls in front with waterproofing or those sorts of things that we can work with, and taking that approach. But we do enter into preliminary agreements with clients. And we do charge a small fee and the way that we work it internally. And this is purely just how we do it, is we credit that back to the project if they go forward with us. So it's a fair approach. Yeah. So it's no, you know, they move forward.
Aaron
And what are we talking about? rustling? Anyone, anywhere from
Robbie
two and a half to four grand depending on the involvement that they need? And that's purely for our time, if we need to bring any consultants in, obviously, that's over and above with that it's more of a cost plus type of thing.
Aaron
And to be fair, like to be fair to the wider audience. This model doesn't always work to be fair, you're building and working in great part East suburbs, eastern suburbs. High end Yeah, that's right. So this approach doesn't always work. But it's what's important about it is the key message out of it for everyone is that early groundwork, exactly. And that early relationships, Yeah,
Robbie
same week, find coming in early. And instantly, you're building a rapport with the client, and also with the architects, maybe a new architect that you haven't worked with before. And quite often, I've sort of presented to architects that this is how we operate, and it's sometimes it's pushed back on it, hang on, no other builders are charging to do this. And then we show them the amount of documentation we provide them. We're completely transparent with our costings with clients on own fixed price or cost plus products, we give full bill of quantities, because we don't have anything to hide the job costs what it costs at the end of the day, and everything's there isn't it, there's no issues for us showing that we show them all our margins transparently. And that also I find builds a lot of trust with the clients that you know, we're not, it's not a sort of back of the paper two page document where there's no information to us, that's not worth the paper it's written on, there's no actual backing behind it. Whereas when we can give them a full open book bill of quantities, give them a clear scope, we even give them a full preliminary works programme, showing them how long the job will go for and the different stages through it so that we're backing our work, you know, if we're saying this is what it's going to be, it's what it's going to be. So we find the process works really well, we find getting in early works well. And going back to you know, if you do lose the project, after putting in that work, the our model, the way that it works, we've been partially paid for your time. So it doesn't come anywhere near quote, covering the amount of time that we spent versus the wages that it cost to actually get all of that information in the meetings and everything. But we've been partially paid. The other part of it is, is that, you know, we've built a relationship with those architects and where they actually see the value in what we're doing as well. Because, you know, we're not we're not designers for non architects, and we're never going to pretend to be that that's not our nation, we're not interested in doing design and construction is not not what we do. So we don't ever step on the architects toes or anything like that. But we also work with them to bring their visions to life and I was listening to you chat with with Froyo. And they you know, about the architects, the amount of projects that actually come to fruition and actually get built, you know, the end game is to try and bring the projects to completion. So if we're able to work with the architects and elapsed, the average of projects that come to completion, because we're actually working with them on the budget in the background, you know, it's better for everybody. So it's a find it's a really good process. And I find, sometimes initially, there's some pushback on it. But once people actually start working through the process, and they've, they've experienced that with us. We've had nothing but really positive outcomes. So we just had one that was a large one that we lost was a large, including joinery and stone everything. It's a $4 million renovation in Mosman and alternates, big alternates project. And we were the middle number. Yeah, that was disclosed to us from clients that you know, we had number that's 200k, less number 200k more so for me, I knew our numbers are on the money at all subbies come through and price it. Unfortunately, we didn't when it came down to sort of contractual terms that we were willing to go with versus what the other builders were willing to go with. But the winter me in that was that that was a big project. For us a really big project. And that was one where we were actually tendering against two of the largest builders in our circle that we work within. And the feedback we're getting our numbers were on the money. To me that enough was where that was confidence because that was clarification that what we're doing is right. And it's a matter of time with those things, you know, one of them is going to come through and you're doing it, it's a bit of a numbers game, we tendering and winning projects. But it was also a new architect. And the feedback from the architect was that they loved our approach, that our tender was the easiest tender for them to interpret and understand inclusions and exclusions and also to, you know, go back and look through everything when I'm doing the comparison. And whilst we lost that project, I am certain that we will actually get a look into future projects with this architect from that experience that we've had with them. So, you know, losing projects is part of the industry, it's part of the game. If you're not losing projects, it's there's something maybe you're not looking for enough work. I'm not sure. But it's part of it's a health check. Yeah, it's part of the part of the industry. So I've found it to be, yeah, it's a rewarding process, whether you're winning them or losing them, obviously, winning them is a lot nicer. But losing them, it's also again, that that opportunity for growth, where what what can you take out of it? Is it a new relationship? Is it maybe a better way of doing things I always ask, every time that we put in even the successful ones, is there anything that we've done in our tender from the architect's perspective, that we could have done better or you know, there's no offence that would be taken with it, it's for us to grow from that and to learn because the next one we want to do we want to be better at it, we continually wanting to grow at what we're doing and get better at it every time.
Aaron
And also, another key message of, of what you're just talking about, then is the builder that that architect, or that client may have chosen in the first instance, I've seen them come back six months later, when the project's deteriorated, or there's been some dispute with the builder and the client. And, you know, I can think of no greater. I wouldn't say embarrassing, but you can imagine the conversation of going back to you after missing out on the tender and saying, Hey, Robbie, yeah, this job's up to frame stage and with to parted ways with with our chosen builder. Can you help us? Yeah, and that happens, and, and there is no greater, I guess, keys to the relationship in that moment, where you then go on to do a really great job. Yeah, you try and work within their budget, because it's going to cost more money going going with you for the second attempt. But if you can do that project, help the client, you've then got the keys to the front door and the architect's front door for every other job going forward. And it happens more more frequent than people realise,
Robbie
you know, we always say to clients when we put in tenders, quite often because of our level of transparency, and that we do like to capture everything and capture it clearly. So there is options to remove things or to add things. But we like to capture the whole big picture so that the clients getting the figure they're getting is what the job will cost. Quite often that means depending on the pool that we're tendering in, that our pricing is actually coming in on the high end, compared to the other tenders. And we were getting asked before we were showing all of our bill of quantities, you know, a few years ago, well, how can your more expensive, you know, X amount more expensive than silencer or the other builders that we're working against? And my response to that was one where it was that? Well, that's the wrong question, because I know why my numbers are where there are, because that's what it's going to cost to do the job. The question should be why the other guy is cheaper. But that's something that from my perspective, that's the question. And the way that we wanted to combat that or the way that we came up with combating that question is, you know, let's give everything let's give our full bill of quantities, let's give absolutely everything. So we have nothing, nothing there at all. You can see everything you can see the cost of everything, you can see our markups. So when it comes through, and we are more expensive, ask the other builder for that, put them next to each other. And straightaway, you'll see if there's something that's been forgotten, something's been left out, or something that's been under quoted as a PS or provisional some item that will end up costing what we're proposing it will cost anyway because we actually had it quoted. You know, there's all those sorts of things that come up. At the end of the day, in the high end, I can only speak from my market, the high end market, but in the high end market, the jobs really cost what they're going to cost. It's to me, the whole price battle, tender stage. It's an outdated system. It's one where I feel that if you can find builders that are trustworthy, and you know, you can check that trustworthiness through a number of references. And for me, builders should never be shying away from giving huge amount of references and getting testimonials from clients because that's your evidence that you're able to actually get the work done and you're able to uphold your end of the deal. So when new clients are coming through for us the main thing is a from our end identifying that their client that's the right fit for us as well like you know, we're going to enter into a year or two You build, and then we've got six years of warranty is eight years a relationship, I don't want to enter into eight years relationship with the wrong person. So you know, we've heard that from having bad experiences. So now we're we've also got a bit of a initial meeting with the clients where as much as they're gauging out us, we're also gauging them and seeing what are we going to be able to be mates through this process is something we're going to be able to work together on. Because if it's not, then you know, maybe it's best that we part ways at that point. But then also, you know, finding a builder that can deliver and is transparent and honest. And that's, that's really what it should be about. The cost side, it shouldn't vary builder to builder, if we're all delivering the same thing. It's one of those things. And when we're getting builders are having this always issue in the industry, where people are coming in and undercutting with quotes, it never goes good. It always ends up badly. And unfortunately, it's on the clients that end up with, as you said, half built houses, that one that I mentioned, they've got a whole master bedroom they can't live in, they're living in the kids room. Like it's just,
Aaron
it's just us. And I think, you know, you said it before, and I completely agree with you where you are, instead of looking at with our quote, you know, look at the other builders quote, always think, well, what's what's wrong with the others? You know, yeah, that attention on the others, because provided that you're putting in front with that client or architect everything? Well, there's nothing to hide, it's not, it's not my fault, that job costs x amount of days, because I've delivered something I can put, I can present something that's going to cost X amount of dollars. And that comes back to that early relationships. Because also, to be fair, the architect, whilst they have a fair amount of input and knowledge in construction practices and principles and all the rest. It's easy for them to design something and the cost blowout.
Robbie
But the thing is, as well, I think, and that's part of looking at that collaborative approach, and how important and that collaborative approach is, is that it's not the architects job to cost projects. That's what the builder does. Yeah, we cost the design the projects. Yes, as you said, there needs to be a general understanding. But I feel that having that relationship where you know, there is that early present prelim drawing set that comes through, and the builder does a quick check on it for costing and gives a little bit of input back to the architect. Now that can all happen behind doors as well, it doesn't have to be that the clients watching this back and forth of costings happening and changes to design and all those sorts of things. So don't fall in love with the design that ends up being more expensive through the process. I think the collaborative approach sort of helps with all of that, like we're all there to work together towards, you know, creating a beautiful space. And it's something that I just think the industry is a bit outdated in the approach where it's a sort of client goes to an architect, and there's no discussions with any builders through the process. And as I said, we're not trying to get involved with the creative process. That's not what we do. And that's shouldn't be what we do. But you know, I think that there's also value there as an engineer does give advice on the structural elements that are required throughout the build and the architect needs to build those structural elements in I think there should also be a conversation with a builder at that point with a what some preliminary numbers on this and having a look at those sorts of things. And that's what we're trying to do. So that
Aaron
that to be fair, that's that's what separates successful builders, like yourself from, I guess, less mature businesses, or all the people that are wondering, well, how can I get in? How can I get a foot in the door? That's what you have to do? Yeah, you're doing it you get in early, exactly open the front door, and think outside the square. And for
Robbie
any of the any listeners that are sort of coming out young builders that are coming through and don't get me wrong, I'm also consider myself a young builder with it. I think part of the process and for myself, I've looked at it as an investment in doing that. So you know, we haven't always charged for those, those. That process and especially when we started doing it, that was our way of showing the architects and getting a foot in the door with the architects and then seeing what the value add and having us do the product is the building bits easy for us. And the reality is, there's a lot of people that can build beautiful homes, it's if you're a good builder, it shouldn't be hard. Like that's what we do. The bit that's different, and it's setting the builders apart is how willing they are to be involved in that process earlier. And then being able to problem solve through that. Like it's all about problem solving, especially with the custom stuff. It's all problem solving.
Aaron
I'll tell you one word that sums it all up. And it's called execution. Yeah. And that's the difference. Yeah. Big difference between building, delivering its execution.
Robbie
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And when you have the wrong type of execution happening, that's when it sort of ends up being that sour relationship. For some reason in the industry. There's there's always this thing where it's a builder verse architect, and the builder complains to the clients about the architects design, the architects plan the clients about the builders, capacity or, you know, quality or build or whatever it may be, and it's just, I just don't think there's a need for it. I think that we're at a point in the industry where there's enough technology available to help with the back end project management through whatever it may be build a trend or CO construct whatever it is people are using. You could that can help with that side. So you don't have to have as much time spent on that side. And, you know, as everything and every industry is advancing, I think with the building industry as well, the whole approach needs to just sort of step up and start having that connection where we're all in it together.
Aaron
Yeah, that's 100% True. And that's why we're fighting. You know, we're out there fighting for the industry, because there's a lot of Deadwood out there that, you know, they're there for a reason. But there's a lot of excellent people out there that talk about it all the time, the the Aussie battlers the backbone of, of Australian small business. And, you know, during COVID, we've been fortunate enough to keep striving along and keep ticking along. And there's a reason why that that is the case is because the government does recognise that we are the backbone of the economy, the construction industry, just Yeah, definitely. So that's why we haven't stopped. Yeah. And we've kept going through all these tough times. And the tough conversations that I'm having with people out there, like money has has slowed down, conditions have changed. There's less people on site, like we got through all of that. And now the, you know, the industry is booming at the moment. Yeah, definitely. When it does stop or slow down in five years time. Yeah, it will come back to good old relationships and the basic principles that you're doing exactly. Execution. Yeah,
Robbie
yeah. And having those, you know, having those relationships is that I think that's, that's, you know, that, as I said earlier, the building part for us is the easiest part that we do, it's the elements that are difficult that I find is a difficult part of it is the business side, because you don't learn business when you're learning carpentry. That's the reality of it. So, you know, that's been something we've had to leverage on mentors, and, you know, doing your own sort of figuring things out. And, you know, sometimes it's trial and error. And so that's the difficult part. And then the people side to it, you know, having that communication, being able to have, you know, good relationships with everybody. That's, that's so important. And such a big ingredient. I see, like, you know, that's just as important as doing the actual work itself, and being able to have that and have the relationships. So yeah, it's been a, an interesting ride.
Aaron
Unbelievable ride. And what about outside of work, Robbie?
Robbie
Yeah, so got a lovely wife, she's probably the most supportive person I know, actually. Because I said, I get into a lot of my mind runs a miles an hour, and I get into something and go for it. And she's super supportive with that, then we have two beautiful children as well. And little daughter, Mila is three and little son, Noah is turning one soon, so it was almost three. So they keep us busy. Outside of work, it's, it's all about the family. And that's how I'd like it. And so it's really been an interesting part of the development of the business as well, and growing through the business where, when my daughter was born, at that point, then, you know, I was just a workhorse just working all the time, seven days a week, all hours because I could and I was willing to, you know, my wife didn't love it, but she was against supportive could see the big picture and what I'm trying to do and understood that that's a stage in it. But it was a real reality check, you know, having having my daughter and, and realising, you know, as she's sort of six months, seven months old, shit, I'm not, I'm not actually at home that much. She's like, she doesn't want to come to me, I'm not, you know, like, all those sorts of things that are the harsh realities. And that's been again, one of the best things that have happened. Obviously, having children is one of the best things that can happen for you. But as far as for my business, that's actually been one of the best things as well, because, you know, it forced us to actually look for some further mentoring. And we've got a bit of coaching on things. And, you know, that was the last 18 months, we have restructured our entire business. So we operate in a way, give you some insight into our business. We've got 16 Guys, that includes three of us in the office. Basically, that's mixed up between for site managers, few carpenters, few apprentices and a few labourers. And then we've got Roberta who runs our whole office side. So she runs out integrated management software, we use buildertrend, she does all our client invoicing, subbies, all that sort of stuff, then we'll is my construction manager is my right hand. And he basically runs all of our client interaction, once we've signed contracts, and interacting with architects and also managing our site managers. And then myself, that gives me the opportunity to work on the business really look at deficiencies that we have and how we can improve those. We've got all those guys looking
Aaron
day to day you're exactly,
Robbie
exactly. So the business what it's given me and we sort of mentioned it earlier, when we're talking about project management is it's given me the opportunity to have enough clarity and overview on what's happening where I can inject myself in where I need to inject myself into. But then we have the right people that were empowered to, to really execute on what they're good at and what they do. So the site managers, our team is incredible that unreal site managers and they're fantastic. They run a site like clockwork and And then Will's an excellent people person when will used to run jobs for us and everyone wanted will on his job. Jobs because he's just yeah, he's fantastic, really great with people. And I stepped back when I had realisation that I wasn't spending time at home. And I talked with our coaches were working with at the time and, and so they identified well, we don't have any real structure, I was doing everything. And you know, I had guys running jobs. And that was all well and good. And you think you've done awesome, because you guys running three or four different jobs, and you've got to you're handling yourself, but then I'm doing the admin, I'm doing the quoting, I'm doing you know, all the other things, and I'm still being involved with their jobs, and the client interactions. And the reality is you can't wear all those hats and do them well, it doesn't matter how good of a builder you are, you cannot be every single one of those roles and actually be executing properly. So what we did is basically took a big step back and looked at, you know, what can we implement straightaway, and the first one was getting admin sort of Office Management happening. So that was an easy one, we could take off my bucket hat that I was wearing, and put it on somebody else, looking at that. And then as that started working away, I was still really heavily involved with the jobs and you have those peaks and troughs in your work, then because you're not quoting as much because you're busy with jobs, and you're not you're not looking for the work or bringing the work in or jumping on those leads quick enough. Because you're busy being on site, you know, everyone knows what that's like, it's it's nonstop, you have to be there getting things done. So then it came to looking at, you know, getting a someone that could do that site for me that it wasn't for me looking externally, it was looking internally to our team and who Who do I think would be the best fit for that. And that was, well, we'll you know, we spent about nine months implementing willing to full time construction manager role. And now we have that in place. It's incredible. And it's gotten to a point now where my role in the business is really looking two years to three months ahead. And I'm constantly working on those things. So as I mentioned, the edge house that we finished, that I was involved in that 2008. And we started construction 2020. So you know, we're constantly looking at projects that may be two years in the future, especially in the hours, we're injecting ourselves earlier. And earlier in the process, it may be three or four years in the future. So
Aaron
it could well be particularly with you know, leading architects Exactly.
Robbie
Two year prior, you might have a year and a half of design, and then you can have a year of counsel. And then you know, you're starting construction two and a half years later, and you might get involved six months into the process. So it's it's gotten to the point now where we're able to, I'm able to have an overview of the actual day to day things. Throughout undergrad and management software, I can see every day what's happening takes me five minutes, look at my phone, go through each job and see what's happening sites photos go up. We've got we are running schedules on the jobs, everything's there, can see who's invoiced who hasn't all those sorts of things. Then we'll handles all of our weekly and fortnightly meetings with clients and architects and those things. So he's out on site with our site managers, he meets with that site manager every week as well. They've got set agendas, they go through making sure we're hitting all the important points. And it's just running awesomely. So now we're able to have that overview of what I need to to be involved in the construction site, to the extent that I need to be involved in it, like, you know, it's no longer me being the builder on site, that's those days have gone for years. Now, it's me having an incredible team that are doing the work. You know, it's not just strategy building, being myself, it's our whole team. And then I'm able to spend the time with the family as well. Like I haven't worked a weekend, I think I had two meetings on a Saturday because clients couldn't take time off and the other day with clients, your service clients. But I haven't worked a weekend in easy 12 months, at home, five, six o'clock, seven o'clock, sometimes a few 100. But you know, have every night having dinner with the family and doing all that. And that to me is worth more than extra revenue for for doing those bit of extra
Aaron
free value. Yeah,
Robbie
the point that I'm adding my life, that's what's most important to me, the business is also much old, I look at that as my firstborn, and I love I love my business, and I love where I'm heading and what I want to do with my business and other opportunities. But my kids, I think comes before my kids, my wife that's always there. So now I feel like I've managed to find that and I'm gonna use the term balance, but I actually don't look at it as balanced. Because to me, balance is 5050 when I'm there, I'm 100% that and I think at that point, it's more important than being in hanging out with my kids. So got the right priorities for me right now, and that are working there. And now it's just working on the continual growth in our business and, you know, working to where we want to hit. We're nowhere near where we want to be at yet. We've got a lot of good opportunities ahead of us. And, you know, a lot of a lot of there's a lot of work. A lot of projects, the
Aaron
key message is you've got the right people in the right jobs. Yeah. And you've employed some systems to get it right. All right, Robbie. So the people listening to this who want to get into contact with you encourage them what check out your Instagram. Yeah,
Robbie
Instagram phone call emails. Yeah, whatever it is. Yeah. I'd love to hear from you if you're interested in getting contact and having a chat.
Aaron
Oh, well, Robbie, as always been great having you on Build Hatch. So thanks for coming on and Build Hatch and the or to stay in touch and looking out for the edge house as well.
Robbie
Thanks for having me, mate. I really appreciate the time and yeah, appreciate you having me on
Aaron
board. All right, no worries. I didn't Thanks. Well, that was another Build Hatch episode with Robbie strategy from strategy building group. What a humble bloke, and I encourage everyone to check out his Instagram account website. Like I said last week, there are certainly some emerging issues going on in the construction industry right now, especially around supply shortages. Like I said last week, I'm going to take charge on some of these issues, and fight for the industry. As usual, please check out our Instagram and other socials, including our YouTube channel, where you'd be able to learn more about our guests and the features of the work that we talk about. Have a great week and you hear me again on the airwaves next week. Thanks for listening to another episode of Build Hatch.
