Aaron Hello, I'm Aaron Kyle and welcome to another episode of Build Hatch. On this week's episode of Build Hatch, I got to sit down with our first guest on the show from Canberra. Brad and his team of carpenters from Trend building solutions are working on some of Canada's best residential construction projects. I was particularly interested in hearing an insight into how the construction industry operates in Canberra. As you don't often hear a lot about the industry in Canberra. They just seem to go about their business. As you're here on a chat. Brad is a true family man. And he reflects on the hard working role model of his dad and the influence that that had on his construction business growing up in a hard working household. This was a really insightful chat. So let's get into it. Brad from Trent Brewing Solutions in Canberra. Welcome to Build Hatch. Thank you, Michael. I guess we always like to go back to the very beginning and hear about how you got into the building and construction industry. So did you always grew up here in Canberra?
Brad
Yeah. Born and bred in Canada. So just on the outskirts was another little town in cold claiming that I grew up in so basically grew up and my dad and my brother over working class sort of me and my dad ran a small business in sort of, like a computer had a like a lawn mowing franchise back in the day sort of thing.
Aaron So that would have been like hard work. I seek sort of hard work that sort of industry Pretty
Brad
much yeah, like, that's what he was about. And my brother and I helped, like after school, weekends, school holidays, that's kind of what we did. It just helped him out. And as soon as a single dad and he needed the help sort of thing. So work was kind of just part of life.
Aaron Were you sort of always wanting to get in the construction industry from school.
Brad
Mike honestly knows. At school, I thought I wanted to be a candidate. I went and did a week sort of work experience at school and hated every minute of it. So
Aaron those guys, their hard work is
Brad
easy. Yeah, I didn't like the idea of being stuck in a factory every day. So when I left school, I've been working my dad for sort of 12 months and just kill time with that, just doing landscaping and he sort of he grew his business from mowing, franchising into landscaping in concrete, things like that. So I just helped him out for the year. And then I actually started Ricky's labouring for a little while through a major dad's and then got towards it. But that was sort of just a few months up until Christmas, helped him out. Then after that, I decided I didn't really enjoy that either. And I picked up an apprenticeship doing Academy. So I started, basically there. That's how I got into construction and just sort of flew from there and did my four year apprenticeship, Kevin and making and things like that, and then got a bit tired of, again, being stuck in a factory. And then I moved over to a carpentry crew. And we did like disabled work. So like bathroom, Reno's for the elderly, and stuff like that bathroom renovations, wheelchair ramps and access stuff like that, that sort of kept me going for quite a while. And it just sort of snowballed from there. And I went out and worked for a few other guys that I knew were doing carpentry, like proper carpentry, like houses and stuff like that. And I've just grown from there. And I did that for probably a couple of years now I've decided to have a go out on my own. So I'm in business, and I was probably I was only young, I was only 23 When I started out and I got hold of doing real estate maintenance. That was sort of my at the time bread and butter. I knew a few people that own real estate agencies and Colombian and I just sort of kept busy doing that. And then I've just it just a natural progression. We just sort of grew out of that. And then knowing mates in the construction industry here. I just graduated here into full time carpentry work building houses. And that's how I got started.
Aaron Yeah, look, that's the best part about the building industry. I think there's just so many swings and roundabouts and so many different pathways to becoming a builder. And the common theme of this podcast is all the guests like it always involves hard work and a work ethic and a team at the end of the day.
Brad
That's right. Yeah, I mean, like I said, growing up was hard work. That's what we use, or that's all I knew was my family. My dad, we just worked all the time. So that was always instilled in me to work, no matter what. And even two hours above the age of in my 30s my dad I'd call him or he'd call me one day or every now and then and I'd say I was off. And he was like, Man, you have to go to work. You have got to get up and work and you just work all the time. That was just that was life. We didn't know anything different. So It's certainly been a hard slog like we've been in a business for since I was about 22. And I'm 37 now. So in one way or another, we've ran the business for that long so not to where it is now, but it's taken a lot of effort to get it to where it is now. But now we run five, five other guys plus myself, which gives us is enough for us at the moment I could be given 20 guys here in Canberra at the moment still wouldn't be enough. So there's, there's that much work at the moment, you just got to draw a line in the sand and say, I'm happy with what I'm taking on sort of thing.
Aaron Tell me about the construction industry in Canberra, what's at work,
Brad
at the moment is very, very busy. If you're not busy here in Canberra, at the moment, you're doing something wrong. Even if you are doing something wrong, you did lives that are still busy. Just the demand for the moment is is crazy. And I think a lot of it has to do with the public service here and put in Canberra that props up the market all the time, there's always a steady flow of money around so people are always buying and building and things like that. So townhouse developments, like multi townhouse developments, and he's been here, but unit blocks of 4050 6070 sort of townhouses, and each block is quite common. That's how I got started, basically, in this industry doing that we've seen scaled back a little bit size, so they're not as big as sites. But yeah, I've said there's just a lot of work in Canberra at the moment. Yeah,
Aaron look, I predicted this about six months ago, I reckon. This has only been proven time and time. And I know, for a fact that the construction industry in Canberra for the next couple of years, if not five years, will just be one of the fastest growing busiest times of your lives in construction. And I'll tell you why it's so it's so obvious and easy, is defence, you only have to look at the the the amount of Defence Jobs, the amount of money that we're having to, as a country invest into, you know, our nation's capital in Canberra, in light of what's going on going on over in Ukraine, what's going on, you know, the the tension with China and Taiwan and all around the world. Now, this will this will be going forward that the government will pump billions and trillions of dollars into the economy. And it's all going to be happening in Canberra there, that's for sure.
Brad
Yeah, that's right. Like I said, it's always we've always had a false economy Gara, we've never really felt too much of a down turning works, even through COVID, and all that sort of stuff. It just never really bothered us here that much. And I put that said, Put that down to the Public Service defence thing. It's just they spend money all the time. And now whether that be government buildings getting built depends on what level of construction you're into. But it all filters down the line. So if they're building big buildings further, that department will those people need places to live, and so on and so forth. So it seems to get sort of very busy.
Aaron So what's it like getting trades here in Canberra at the moment, like everyone's busy? So how is that a bit of a challenge for you at the moment?
Brad
Maybe it's the same for everyone. I mean, at the moment in our business, we predominantly do carpentry work, just contract carpentry work. So builder will get in contact with us to come and do his carpentry work. So we are licenced builders, I've been recently just obtained my all my licences in New South Wales and ICT. So we're not feeling that at the moment. But in terms of what I hear through my viewers that I work for, at the moment, it's the same thing. It's hard to get trades to come back that try to look after the ones they've got, because you just don't know if you can get someone else.
Aaron It's one of the places I mean, particularly on the east coast of Australia, Canberra seems to sort of just creep creep through under the radar a little bit like you don't you don't often hear too much. So it's always good to get a bit of an insight. And it's interesting that you say that there's obviously a lot of townhouse development, a lot of work for policy and public servants. And so there's definitely a lot of work around.
Brad
Yeah, like I said at the moment, they're popping up everywhere. There's a lot of new suburbs that have just come up in Canberra recently, that are still going quite well. But even the older suburbs now are getting developed. They're buying developers are buying two or three blocks, industry, joining them together and putting seven or eight townhouses on it or something like that.
Aaron How have you been impacted by materials? Like how has that impacted you in in Canberra?
Brad
Yeah, look, it's it's causes issues the same as everyone else. steel frames are quite common now. Which has carpenters. It's kinda like taboo, like you hate it. We just, it takes a lot of convincing to get the boys to sort of try and get into it and be involved in it. They just Like the idea of playing machine, but it's, I can't blame them. It's speak to any carpenter that does steel frames. So it's just hard, you can't manipulate them, you can't just cut it and join it and go on. So that shortage of materials, obviously, that's because of the timber. So that's gone into that. I feel like he's coming back a little bit. And we do have the odd issue where we get to the end of projects where we waiting on items to turn up like door handles and stuff like that to fit units off, but there's just delays in getting them here. And I think a lot of the builders now used to it in organising a lot earlier. So they'll have a lot of us sort of stockpiled and just try and keep their projects moving accordingly.
Aaron Particularly in the southern states, a lot of builders or GPS, they try and plan their work so that they're not out framing in the middle of winter. So and obviously cameras are very cool place in winter. What sort of planning with that goes on with you or it doesn't really matter. Like how does that affect you? The weather
Brad
may not really like he camera just keeps going, has chippies, I guess the weather does ever play a little pet like impact. Like with the frost. Sometimes it's hard to be up doing trusses and stuff when it's frosty. But pretty much rain, hail or shine like it just keeps going. It doesn't matter. To me, if builders don't care if they're throwing frames up in winter, or summer or whatever, we've had some pretty miserable days, but I've never actually had it snow on us while we worked. You can see it in the surrounds, like the mountains that surround camera, you can see it on the top to the mountains when you drive into work. And you can see it's only sort of one, one hill back from the town like all cameras, you know, it's going to be a cold day. But yeah, it's not uncommon to have minus fives sixes sort of thing. Very cool and very hot. And it's, we get variance from minus five to 45. Sometimes we can test out just the boys out of it, especially some of the younger ones, because they just can't handle it. They're just not used to working in those conditions.
Aaron Now, is there anything that you need in Canada's construction industry? Like is there anything that you find that's different from what you see or hear about other places?
Brad
Probably a lot of run of the mill type developments, nothing quite out of the box sort of thing. Like is it in our town as developers developments that we work on predominantly, they're just the basic straight up rectangles sort of thing. They're just one after another, but nothing fancy. You see a lot of stuff online of folks building really interesting stuff. Not saying it doesn't happen in camera, but I guess we're not a part of that. We just stick in our lane and do the traditional sort of stuff that's going on. I wouldn't say that there was too much out of the box sorting camera, it was fairly standard construction here. Obviously, you get the high end stuff in certain suburbs, but
Aaron do run to different crews or like how do you sort of run your your business?
Brad
Not really, we try to run our business. So we can do start to finish basically like we prefer to do everything from the very start from your very first frame to your final door handle at the very end. Just makes it so much easier for you know, what's what, you know, if you've missed something, that frame said you got to pick it up at depreciate stage. So you know that it's there. That's generally how we try to run it. And I tried to teach all my boys to be able to do the lot. I don't like to have to separate crews in that it just seems to be hard work for me to organise in
Aaron basically, ideally, have all the all the guys on the one site
Brad
at the moment. Yeah, cuz we only run a sort of crew of six, we try and keep it fairly tight knit. When you've got sort of four or five townhouses on one block, you can easily sort of disperse the guys around there and keep them busy. Sometimes it will split just depends on how the day like how two weeks run some jobs overlap. So we've got to split the crew into sort of three and three or to go to one job and the rest go to another job.
Aaron And do you contract that for like, say a fixed price for packages for builders? Not a lot. So
Brad
camp is really based on rates at the moment. So you'll either at issue a set of rights to the builder that you generally work from, or Tao have a set of rights that they have that they think is what's fair and reasonable. And then you might argue from that argue, but you might chop and change a few dollars here or there or a few different things and come to a happy medium and go from
Aaron there. So do you do you sort of help work that out and say, Okay, we'll frame is going to be x and feed off is this and will we've allowed 10 days for that but if it goes over it's over or like it varies, does it?
Brad
Yeah, so we'll go through and luxon will negotiate to price on if I think they're right there rather famous might be such and such a nice name it might be, we've got to come up a couple of dollars AMITA to get that to work. General deadlines we don't like with the guys that we work for, they don't run that too much. They'll just they'll say the friends already on this day we get there and make a start. And obviously you got to work to timeframes and you get pushed as you go sort of thing. But it's not. It's not generally a contracted out thing. We'll say, we'll give you 10 days to get the phones up, no matter what sort of thing, it just, it's probably a little bit more relaxed, I guess, maybe down here than some other parts? I don't know, because I've never really, I've never worked anywhere else. But he so I don't know how
Aaron it's a supply and demand thing. And it's also a demographic like, it does vary from city to city and state to state and, and, of course, when there's huge demand. Well, that evidently creates, you know, I guess a bit of a reluctance to fix price and, and to work transparently. And but, I mean, one of the things I'm interested in is if you've, you know, for a chippy who's listening to this and, and thinking, Well, I'd love to be able to have have a square metre, right? Because I, I often get asked all the time, like, how do I convert what we do into, you know, a square metre, right on this or that I mean, if you're, if you're a Tyler or painter, it's, it can be a lot easier if you like sometimes to be able to work that out. But if you're working off like a framing square metre, right? How do you are linear metre, right? How do you work that out? As a chip you?
Brad
Yeah, look. So like down here, everything gets based off your footprint base, build your house, if it's a 200 square metre footprint, that's how most things get worked out, and you get your frames on that price, you get depreciate on that price, and you get your fix out, and you feed off, done it those square metres and then obviously, the dollar figure holders in between, you're always gonna get variations in it, like we get if something's off, like a bit different because changing some bills are actually the price that out, other guys will just be happy for you to say we'll just do it on the hourly rate, and just get it done.
Aaron But it's certainly about like a linear metre rate or a square metre rate. Is that sort of like benchmark across the the local industry? Or? Or do they say, Okay, well, we've got a 200 square metre home, the, it takes three guys at 60 bucks an hour, a whole day to erect, I don't know, 30 lineal metres of framing 2.7 metres tall or something like that, and then convert that to a to a rate.
Brad
To be honest, I don't know, like I said, because we've just sort of gradually grew into this, this market, we've just, I've gotten rates off mates that I know. And it's just sort
Aaron of an industry benchmark. Really, yeah.
Brad
And then you'll talk to a few other guys that you know, in the industry, and they say, level up a couple of dollars here. So you jump on your he, you change it, and then you send it out to your builders and say, Well, this is what it is now, because everything's going up, inflation is down, and so on and so forth. So it kind of just seems to go like that. And then as a whole, I guess the town sort of runs on a roundabout, similar prices, you'll get guys that are doing a little bit cheaper, you'll get guys that are getting a little bit more, but their builders are happy to pay for it at some builders, what sort of things
Aaron it's not as scientific as what people make it out to be, is it it's just someone really,
Brad
I don't know where they said it is. Obviously someone that's thought it kind of keeps evolving every year, every year, I try and put mine up every financial year sort of thing. Is everything materials go up and stuff like that. So
Aaron are you supplying and installing, we don't do
Brad
a lot of supply and instal at the moment. always just been a little bit hesitant of it, I guess, just in case something goes pear shaped and you might not get paid and you've got a lot of money out laid and, and things like that. So some, some builders are into it, they're happy for you to do it and others are not because they get their markup on it. So they're not really keen on you supplying it and putting 25% 2% on your materials because if they can order it, they'll just build themselves.
Aaron Yeah, that's right. What's sort of an emerging trend if you like that's going on in in Canberra in in construction, like is there anything that's that's unique or different that standing out and you think oh, this is starting to to become popular or creep in a bit more.
Brad
A lot of metal cladding is becoming very popular in Canberra at the moment. I see that going up on a lot of buildings pretty much most buildings are having somewhat of colorbond cladding everywhere. Obviously it's fairly on trend at the moment With the matte finishes that you can get with it. So that's probably a big one. Obviously, there's different materials getting coming out all the time.
Aaron So do you do any standing seam cleaning?
Brad
Not a lot. We did some of my own house I finished, we just built the house myself about two months ago. We put some NT not stents in, but insane, which is kind of a similar product. I guess. We did a little bit of that on the front facade, but I don't do a lot of it.
Aaron Yeah, it's definitely a different trade. You know, it's, it's, it's another level, I think in, in the manual handling and the installation.
Brad
Just the detail, I think that can go into like a lot of flashing work and stuff like that, obviously a to make it watertight and be to make it look nice as well. So just takes a lot of effort. I think you either either know it or you don't sort of thing. What about
Aaron the local network or building industry in Canberra here? Like? What's it like in terms of is most of your work through word of mouth referral? Or like, how do you get mostly work?
Brad
Yeah, most of my work is come that way. Like I Well, I'd say pretty much all of it, I've never really advertised to get work from builders. When I first got started, I came in under a good mate of mine, helping him out, he was running a fairly large crew and stuff like that. So we just sort of helped him out. And then he kind of went in a different directions. And he just handed it over to me sort of thing. He said, Well, here's my contacts and go from there. So it's kind of just evolved from there. And I guess, being born, he worked here my whole life, you get to know a lot of people and people talk to other people and say, Oh, this guy did a good job. So if you're looking for our current GPS, give him a call, and it sort of just snowballs from there.
Aaron What's on the cards for the future of yourself and trend building solutions moving forward.
Brad
Moving forward, I would like to get into building some stuff for myself, obviously, just love it. We've just got our licences to be licenced builders now. So that would be was that a hard process, it's taken a lot of years of experience, I guess you got to get a lot of hours under your belt to be able to be deemed competent in it, which has to be signed off from other licenced builders. So that's taken a long time to build up that sort of thing. So that was always something that's been on my radar for a lot easier, just have had it seen. And obviously, like a lot of people running business get busy and don't do much with it. And I had kids and stuff like that. So it just sort of set a little bar for a while. And then during COVID, you sort of looked into it, like I was sitting at home not doing a great deal. So sort of did start to get the process really going and apply through the government's to get my licence. And it sort of happened fairly quickly from there. So being that we're on the border of New South Wales and ICT that you get one in one state, and then you just apply across the border, and they give it to you for just like RPL sort of thing.
Aaron Did you go through like a local service provider to get your builder's licence or like an agency?
Brad
Yeah, so I did my Cert for quite some time ago through capital Training Institute. So I've got my surfboard through them. And then obviously, like I said, had to gain all the levels experience, building and managing jobs and things like that. So that took me a while to get to where I needed to get to. What do you like
Aaron to do outside of work when you're not busy Brad running trend building solutions here in Canada.
Brad
When I'm not doing that. I started coaching rugby league this year. So I started coaching my son's under seven side. I played rugby league as a young fellow from the age of six right through till I was about 19. And substep, right away from it from there and never really had nothing to do with it. And then my son started last year when he was six pain. So I sort of got roped into a little bit of helping them and there was a spot open up for a side this year. And I put my hand up to coach and I've honestly love it. I would never I don't think I'd ever not doing any more. It's just something that's a good. Just a good thing away from work. I don't have to think about work and stuff like that. So that's a really big thing, especially during winter seasons about to come to an end next week. But well this week, sorry. And then other than that, I ride dirt bikes. So I like to do that and get out when I can. And same thing when you run a business, there's not a lot of free time for that. So
Aaron that's right, everyone's busy, particularly in construction. So one foot in front of the other all the time.
Brad
Yeah, that's it and luckily, I've got two little kids so they're both sort of getting into the age where they're into sport and stuff now so that keeps us pretty busy as well. So
Aaron what's it like looking back now you know, the the young Brad and his family and he's old man running Hello mowing business and you sort of look back now you're coaching your own young guy. And what's what's the light reflecting on?
Brad
It's, it's very, it's very strange because like I said, going back to the football thing, it's like a full circle like all the all the dads that I see in our old guys that I played footy with. And it's like turning back in time sort of thing. And a lot of the older guys that were there are still there now. So it's really nice. And just, I guess, looking back on it. At the time, I never really thought I was learning much from my dad luck, but he probably taught me probably the most important thing in the world is a work ethic and you don't get anything for free in life, you got to work hard for it to get it. So that's probably a really good thing for me to reflect on quite regularly.
Aaron Yeah, look, it's so true. And I think, you know, a lot of people undervalue hard work, and you some some days you think, why am I doing this? Or, you know, I'm just grinding this out, where am I? Where am I going? Like, it doesn't feel like I'm getting anywhere. And then you just get a couple of days, you might only get two days a fortnight, I reckon. And you just think today was a good day. I'm moving in the right direction. And it's, it's worth it.
Brad
Yeah, this is a hard thing to be like, I believe that you're either cut out to do it, or you're not sort of thing. It's a big mental load to take. And you need to be able to try and shut off from it when you when you hit the front door of your house. But it's not easy. Yeah, it does take its toll on your families and stuff like that.
Aaron Yeah, look, it's all worth it, though, isn't it? I mean, at the end of the day, we're employing people, you're putting food on their table, as well as your own family's table. So it's, you know, it's very rewarding and satisfying when you look at it like that, not necessarily in a financial capacity all the time. Yeah, that's right.
Brad
And it's a bit like the football thing, watching, watching your staff grow as well, like it's watching them learn and evolve into things. And then even like, over the years, I've had guys do their apprenticeship to me, and then they go off and do their own thing. And it takes satisfaction in that too. Because you sort of think, well, I told him most of what he knows, and things like that. So that that's very rewarding to
Aaron Now here's an interesting question for you. How do you handle when you have a really good work or an employee that works for you? And they say, Brad on? Thank you. I'm grateful for everything that you've done. But I now want to go out and be like you but work for myself? How do you manage that,
Brad
it's never easy, because you invest a lot of time into stuff and time is money and things like that, no one stays with you forever, like, no one's going to be there in retire with you. That's just the nature of the beast, people come and go, that I'm a big believer in, they do the right thing by me, I do the right thing by them if they just want to go out and have a go by themselves. And there's been no, no issues. And that's no problem by me. Like I think good luck to you and go and if I can help you out in any way that I will like, if you're starting a business and you want a bit of work, or you want to do some hourly work or whatever, then I'll be more than happy to help them out sort of thing, because I know what it was like when I first started, it was hard. So if I can help any of them, I will,
Aaron is there someone you talk to or turn to like if you are having sort of a tough time with work in terms of running your business or anything like that?
Brad
A little bit? Okay, I went through a bit of a period there sort of early in the year that was pretty, pretty tough. I haven't made a mind that had ran something very similar. He was probably the only one I could sort of talk to a little bit the rest of my mates and stuff like that don't run their own businesses at all. So it's like I said, if you don't run a business, you don't generally understand the pressure that can come with it. And I do find myself sometimes to be a little bit lonely, because there's not a lot of my mates that are doing what I'm doing sort of thing. So it can be quite easily to be just sort of singled out and you just sort of do you do anything and you just work all the time, because that's what you know, I did go through some bit of a business coaching thing earlier that sort of late last year, which helped out with a lot of ideas and just some processes that put into the business and, and stuff like that and helped me with some of the stuff that I had and sort of just filter through a bit of the business shit. Basically, the biggest thing that I probably struggled with over the years was the admin side of things. As like a hands on person, like you're not generally built to sit in front of a computer all day. He's just it's very foreign to you just you'd like to build things with your hands and try and manage cash flows and budgets and all that sort of stuff. You're just not taught these things when you're younger and it's something that I wish I had had someone to aim at. You should do a proper budget with your business every week or every month or whatever it is. extubate it's it's probably the that's probably my biggest thing that I took out of some coaching and stuff that that's helped our business out massively. Alright, Brad?
Aaron Well, it's been really nice to sit down and get to talk to you and hear about the construction industry here in Canberra. So for the people listening this who want to get into contact with you and your team, what's the best way to go about it?
Brad
Make ticket jump on, just look us up on online, look at there's our website there. Any social media Instagram, if it gets a message through there, and I've said if I can help anywhere or anyone's got a question or something, then I'm more than happy to help out and get people through some difficult times or whatever that be
Aaron well said, and I love what you're doing. And kudos to you doing some great things in Canberra and what a great place to be, and work over the next five years and beyond. So, Brad from Trend building solutions here in Canberra. Thanks for coming on to Build Hatch. Thank you.
Well, that was another Build Hatch episode with Brad from Trend building solutions in Canberra. Brad and his team are working on some really cool projects. So I certainly encourage you to check out our socials for an insight into their wonderful work. As usual, if you know a hard worker having a goal in the construction space, or a building related business personal product, we love what they are doing or selling them please do get into contact with us. And we'll be more than happy to tell their story and get behind their goods or services on the Build Hatch marketplace. Our team of busy rolling out independent sells on built hatched.com As we speak, so stay tuned for more and more products and services as they onboard. As usual, please check out our Instagram page and other socials to be able to learn more about our guests and some of the features of the work that we talk about. Have a great week and you hear me again on the airwaves next week. Thanks for listening to another episode of Build Hatch. You have experienced our builds hatch developed production
